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 Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 3:13 am Post subject: why approach change in software engineering? |
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Why have the approaches employed in Software Engineering changed over
the years? Have the approaches currently employed reached the optimal
level yet? |
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Marra
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 4:09 am Post subject: Re: why approach change in software engineering? |
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On 21 May, 00:13, rohit12...@gmail.com wrote:
| Quote: |
Why have the approaches employed in Software Engineering changed over
the years? Have the approaches currently employed reached the optimal
level yet?
|
Testing has not really changed for me over 25 years.
I just use things and press all the wrong buttons and hope to catch it
out.
Try to make input values out of range.
A good rule of thumb is to spend at least as long testing the software
as it took to write it.
If you are finishing writing the software and then sending it out then
you are looking for trouble. |
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Phlip
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 9:16 am Post subject: Re: why approach change in software engineering? |
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rohit12641 wrote:
| Quote: |
Why have the approaches employed in Software Engineering changed over
the years?
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The verbiage regarding software process, a decade ago, was typically either
misleading or flawed. The documentation either implied Waterfall, or
specified it. This let newbies think you should always declare all
requirements before coding any of them. That is the worst possible way to
work because it conflates the risk of every mistake in those requirements.
| Quote: |
Have the approaches currently employed reached the optimal
level yet?
|
At my current job we use pure Extreme Programming, and the bosses really
like it. They specify a small batch of new features each week, and this
allows us to not work on any feature that's not needed. This seems optimal;
weekly iterations are the opposite of Waterfall's yearly iterations.
--
Phlip
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596510657/
"Test Driven Ajax (on Rails)"
assert_xpath, assert_javascript, & assert_ajax |
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H. S. Lahman
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 6:47 pm Post subject: Re: why approach change in software engineering? |
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Responding to Rohit12641...
| Quote: |
Why have the approaches employed in Software Engineering changed over
the years? Have the approaches currently employed reached the optimal
level yet?
|
They change because we still haven't figured out how to do it right yet.
So we need to keep looking. Until we understand what we are doing we
will be victims of the classic paraphrase of the three laws of
thermodynamics:
You can't win.
You can't even break even.
You can't quit playing.
*************
There is nothing wrong with me that could
not be cured by a capful of Drano.
H. S. Lahman
hsl@pathfindermda.com
Pathfinder Solutions
http://www.pathfindermda.com
blog: http://pathfinderpeople.blogs.com/hslahman
"Model-Based Translation: The Next Step in Agile Development". Email
info@pathfindermda.com for your copy.
Pathfinder is hiring:
http://www.pathfindermda.com/about_us/careers_pos3.php.
(888)OOA-PATH |
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Chris Hills
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 10:03 am Post subject: Re: why approach change in software engineering? |
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In article <FW94i.22735$JZ3.9800@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net>, Phlip
<phlipcpp@yahoo.com> writes
| Quote: |
rohit12641 wrote:
Why have the approaches employed in Software Engineering changed over
the years?
The verbiage regarding software process, a decade ago, was typically either
misleading or flawed. The documentation either implied Waterfall, or
specified it. This let newbies think you should always declare all
requirements before coding any of them. That is the worst possible way to
work because it conflates the risk of every mistake in those requirements.
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This is not true.
| Quote: |
Have the approaches currently employed reached the optimal
level yet?
At my current job we use pure Extreme Programming,
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This is highly unsuitable for some systems. It is just the current fad
as will be shown in 10 years when some one writes.
| Quote: |
The verbiage regarding software process, a decade ago, was typically either
misleading or flawed.
|
Incidentally the waterfall model should have feed back loops at every
stage. The V model is better as it shows the testing too.
What is missed in software engineering is people don't make prototypes
as in most mechanical engineering but go for the big bang approach as
used in civil engineering. i.e. for a bridge or large building they are
usually one off systems (and you have to have all the requirements
sorted before you start.
However the rules and regulations (procedural, legal and nature) are
much greater for civil engineering.
--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
/\/\/ chris@phaedsys.org www.phaedsys.org \/\/\
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ |
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Marc Girod
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: why approach change in software engineering? |
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On May 23, 9:44 am, Chris Hills <c...@phaedsys.org> wrote:
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The V model is better as it shows the testing too.
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And discloses the same basic flaw:
it is a project driven approach, which was adapted for
producing new products, but is inadequate for maintaining,
and enhancing a configuration in place, as it is being
used.
The 'production' model was this of the infancy of software
development, mirroring the practices in traditional
industries.
Software development in its maturity is a more continuous
process. It requires reactive, not proactive abilities,
despite what the old wisdom says.
Projects have a start and an end, and bind resources in a
planned and timely way.
Think of the configuration as a space: model it as a map
with issues, competences, resources, opportunities.
Systematically prioritizing time over space is arbitrary
and will inevitably be suboptimal, at spaces.
Marc |
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Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 8:10 pm Post subject: Re: why approach change in software engineering? |
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"H. S. Lahman" <h.lahman@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:Xhi4i.9416$xP.145@trndny04...
| Quote: |
Responding to Rohit12641...
Why have the approaches employed in Software Engineering changed over
the years? Have the approaches currently employed reached the optimal
level yet?
They change because we still haven't figured out how to do it right yet. So we
need to keep looking. Until we understand what we are doing we will be victims
of the classic paraphrase of the three laws of thermodynamics:
You can't win.
You can't even break even.
You can't quit playing.
For my students, I paraphrase Newton's Third Law of Motion. |
For every new set of software solutions, there is an equal opposite
set of new problems.
This is true whether one is using Waterfall, V Model, Rapid Prototyping,
Object-oriented programming, Extreme Programming, MDA, Ad hoc,
or whatever.
We learn from experience what problems are likely to manifest themselves,
and we manage each project to mitigate/prevent/elmininate the associated
risks, knowing that, in doing so, we introduce new risks. Engineering, of
any kind, involves understanding and managing trade-offs between conflicting
constraints and forces. Being able to do that, regardless of the chosen
process, is the essence of good design as well as good project management.
Relying on a process alone, whether Waterfall or Extreme Programming is
inappropriate for serious software. Those who criticize Waterfall probably
don't realize how much excellent software has been completed and deployed
using it. Same for V model. Same for eXtreme Programming.
Give me any process and a foolish or inexperienced project manager, and I
will give you a "pile of dry rot held up by a flying buttress."
Richard Riehle |
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Marc Girod
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 3:27 pm Post subject: Re: why approach change in software engineering? |
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On May 26, 4:10 pm, <adawo...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
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For my students, I paraphrase Newton's Third Law of Motion.
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Or Thomas Kuhn's concept of paradigm, which develops on the same idea.
Both of them accept an idea of 'progress'.
In Kuhn's case, there may be diverging paths.
....
| Quote: |
Being able to do that, regardless of the chosen process, is
the essence of good design as well as good project management.
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'Project management' is itself a paradigm.
In the realm of software, I believe it is an anachronic one already.
Marc |
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