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Plasmafire
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 Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:30 am Post subject: Your opinion on Quality Standards |
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Which, in your opinion, are the 3 actions that we can implement at the
individual/ organizational level to achieve highest Quality standards
during the life cycle of a project? |
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JXStern
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:33 am Post subject: Re: Your opinion on Quality Standards |
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On 21 Mar 2007 13:30:36 -0700, "Plasmafire" <DineshOnline@gmail.com>
wrote:
| Quote: |
Which, in your opinion, are the 3 actions that we can implement at the
individual/ organizational level to achieve highest Quality standards
during the life cycle of a project?
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1. establish metrics
2. track metrics
3. respond to metrics
J. |
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Wayne Woodruff
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: Your opinion on Quality Standards |
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| Quote: |
Which, in your opinion, are the 3 actions that we can implement at the
individual/ organizational level to achieve highest Quality standards
during the life cycle of a project?
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I have one word to add
| Quote: |
1. establish MEANINGFUL metrics
2. track metrics
3. respond to metrics
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All too often people measure the wrong thing. Garbage In Garbage Out.
Wayne Woodruff
http://www.2zars.com |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 5:29 pm Post subject: Re: Your opinion on Quality Standards |
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On Mar 21, 3:30 pm, "Plasmafire" <DineshOnl...@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Which, in your opinion, are the 3 actions that we can implement at the
individual/ organizational level to achieve highest Quality standards
during the life cycle of a project?
|
Measurements are the standards by which we know:
The project is under managerial control (schedule, budget,
expectations, quality goals, etc)
The product is under intellectual control. If no one person
understands the whole thang at any one level, it is out of
intellectual control. This is caused by overly large teams (with
partitioned knowledge) and too large/complex (monolithic) modules/
processes. See Brian Yoder's online article The Big Ball of Mud.
The process is under statistical quality control, else you have
nothing but a guess as to when you have a production quality product
or how to make statements about its quality.
........ |
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H. S. Lahman
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:21 pm Post subject: Re: Your opinion on Quality Standards |
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Responding to Plasmafire...
| Quote: |
Which, in your opinion, are the 3 actions that we can implement at the
individual/ organizational level to achieve highest Quality standards
during the life cycle of a project?
|
Clearly a trick question. There is only one thing to do for such a broad
goal: adopt an established process improvement methodology. That
methodology will describe all the available techniques and enable you to
prioritize them for your particular shop context.
*************
There is nothing wrong with me that could
not be cured by a capful of Drano.
H. S. Lahman
hsl@pathfindermda.com
Pathfinder Solutions
http://www.pathfindermda.com
blog: http://pathfinderpeople.blogs.com/hslahman
"Model-Based Translation: The Next Step in Agile Development". Email
info@pathfindermda.com for your copy.
Pathfinder is hiring:
http://www.pathfindermda.com/about_us/careers_pos3.php.
(888)OOA-PATH |
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Alexei Polkhanov
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:39 pm Post subject: Re: Your opinion on Quality Standards |
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On Mar 21, 1:30 pm, "Plasmafire" <DineshOnl...@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Which, in your opinion, are the 3 actions that we can implement at the
individual/ organizational level to achieve highest Quality standards
during the life cycle of a project?
|
And what is wrong with ISO 9600 quality standards?
---
Alexei |
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Plasmafire
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| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:44 am Post subject: Re: Your opinion on Quality Standards |
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| Quote: |
Alexei
There is nothing wrong with the standards themselves, but then, you |
say that two
companies following the same standards guidelines would produce the
exact same quality of code?
| Quote: |
H. S. Lahman
I agree, a tricky one, and an equally broad answer. |
The point I wished to raise is that i found no proper documentation,
or even a supporting set of guidelines
relating project model and approach to achieving quality standards.
this said, i am a great fan of a defined process, rather than, even
justifiable judgement. |
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Alexei Polkhanov
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:48 pm Post subject: Re: Your opinion on Quality Standards |
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Huh, standard does not tell you how you achieve quality in your
software, or give you methods or any guidelines on how to do it, it
only defines quality characteristics. For example it defines what
types of quality characteristic are applicable to software and defines
them. For example it gives "mean time to failure" as example of
reliability metric.
So read the standard first - quite an interesting reading!
Most things were invented in software engineering by the end of 80s
and documented in standards and guidelines. You can often see someone
trying to "reinvent" those basic principles and resell them as new
ideas to moderately educated on subject people. That is silly.
Alexei.
On Mar 27, 2:44 pm, "Plasmafire" <DineshOnl...@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Alexei
There is nothing wrong with the standards themselves, but then, you
say that two
companies following the same standards guidelines would produce the
exact same quality of code?>H. S. Lahman
I agree, a tricky one, and an equally broad answer.
The point I wished to raise is that i found no proper documentation,
or even a supporting set of guidelines
relating project model and approach to achieving quality standards.
this said, i am a great fan of a defined process, rather than, even
justifiable judgement. |
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Phlip
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:55 am Post subject: Re: Your opinion on Quality Standards |
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Alexei Polkhanov wrote:
| Quote: |
Huh, standard does not tell you how you achieve quality in your
software, or give you methods or any guidelines on how to do it, it
only defines quality characteristics. For example it defines what
types of quality characteristic are applicable to software and defines
them. For example it gives "mean time to failure" as example of
reliability metric.
|
The important difference here is between static and dynamic quality. If you
snapshot the product line, is each piece on it high quality? That's the
static question.
If you watch the product line in motion, does it have mechanisms to improve
quality? That's the dynamic question.
The aphorism "quality is job 1" is supposed to mean that anyone who sees
anything out of tolerance is supposed to stop the line and convene an
instant meeting, with anyone who's around, to ask how the part got out of
tolerance, and to pass recommendations back to its supplier.
However, we all know what can happen in our modern era to whistle blowers,
so relying on the aphorism alone would be foolish. ;-)
--
Phlip
http://flea.sourceforge.net/PiglegToo_1.html |
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H. S. Lahman
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 12:28 am Post subject: Re: Your opinion on Quality Standards |
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Responding to Plasmafire...
| Quote: |
The point I wished to raise is that i found no proper documentation,
or even a supporting set of guidelines
relating project model and approach to achieving quality standards.
this said, i am a great fan of a defined process, rather than, even
justifiable judgement.
|
All of the alphabet soup of process frameworks (CMM, ISO, etc.) have
copious documentation on project models and what elements of those
models are related to quality. The rest of the alphabet soup (TQM,
6-Sigma, etc.) for process improvement provide specific implementations
of the processes related to quality that can work within those
frameworks. So I don't see any shortage of documentation on this stuff.
Could you be more specific about what you are looking for?
*************
There is nothing wrong with me that could
not be cured by a capful of Drano.
H. S. Lahman
hsl@pathfindermda.com
Pathfinder Solutions
http://www.pathfindermda.com
blog: http://pathfinderpeople.blogs.com/hslahman
"Model-Based Translation: The Next Step in Agile Development". Email
info@pathfindermda.com for your copy.
Pathfinder is hiring:
http://www.pathfindermda.com/about_us/careers_pos3.php.
(888)OOA-PATH |
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Alexei Polkhanov
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 12:41 am Post subject: Re: Your opinion on Quality Standards |
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| Quote: |
The important difference here is between static and dynamic quality. If you
snapshot the product line, is each piece on it high quality? That's the
static question.
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| Quote: |
If you watch the product line in motion, does it have mechanisms to improve
quality? That's the dynamic question.
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Where are you getting all this ideas? What dynamic quality? Please
refer me to a book or article of any reputable s/w engineer or
scientist I can read it from.
There is defect removal "yield" or rate at which defects removed in
development stages like code review, testing, unit testing etc. and
"defect injection rate" for development stages such as requirements
elicitation, requirements specification, allocation, design and code
construction. Defect rates are calculated as number of defects per
1000 lines of code. So yield is a metric applied to a process and
defect rate in product after its final states will define resulting
quality of the product.
| Quote: |
The aphorism "quality is job 1" is supposed to mean that anyone who sees
anything out of tolerance is supposed to stop the line and convene an
instant meeting, with anyone who's around, to ask how the part got out of
tolerance, and to pass recommendations back to its supplier.
However, we all know what can happen in our modern era to whistle blowers,
so relying on the aphorism alone would be foolish. ;-)
|
Well if someone saying that quality is "bad" is not whistle blowers
but rather naive, because good, bad, very bad is not applicable
engineering metric. For some products 5 defects per 1000 LOCs may be
acceptable for some not. Setting goal to 1 defect per 10,000 LOC for
regular s/w project is as irresponsible as setting it to 25 per 1000
because in first case product will be so expensive that will probably
became as useless as golden frying pan and in second case it will be
impossible to use due to defects. All regular software has 1-5 defects
per 1000 LOC.
---
Alexei Polkhanov
Sr. Consultant/Software Systems Analyst
Tel: (604) 719-2515
E-mail: use...@monteaureus.com |
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Phlip
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:43 am Post subject: Re: Your opinion on Quality Standards |
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Alexei Polkhanov wrote:
| Quote: |
If you watch the product line in motion, does it have mechanisms to
improve
quality? That's the dynamic question.
Where are you getting all this ideas? What dynamic quality? Please
refer me to a book or article of any reputable s/w engineer or
scientist I can read it from.
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/The Body in Question/ by Dr. Jonathan Miller, specifically the lecture on
the distinction between dynamic and static equilibrium.
And I decline to play the argumentum-autoritatem game.
--
Phlip
http://flea.sourceforge.net/PiglegToo_1.html |
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